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    The Computer Audiophile

    Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res Mess

     


    This morning I've been testing Apple Music's new lossless and Hi-Res offerings on both my iPhone 12 Pro running iOS 14.6 and my Mac Mini (M1) running macOS 11.4. In my tests, I'm only concerned with playing the music bit perfectly, in other words without making any changes to the audio. If Apple Music says it's streaming lossless audio, then I want to stream that audio losslessly, rather than accidentally converting it to lossy AAC or MP3 etc... Whether or not people can hear the difference is a topic for another discussion. I'm just making sure I can play the music in its original form and that Apple is sending true lossless and Hi-Res to my audio devices. 

     


    Let's Dig in


    What is bit perfect and why should I care? In the simplest terms, bit perfect means that the audio hasn't been changed. The music sent, in this case from Apple Music, into the playback device hasn't been altered. The source is what has been delivered to Apple by the record labels. Apple is just the delivery company.

     

    If you care about high quality, getting the lossless streaming you're paying for from Apple Music, Qobuz, Tidal, Amazon Music, etc... then you should care about bit perfect because without it you have no idea what's happening to your audio. If this isn't a concern for you, no worries. 

     


    Testing Methodology 

     

    Device 1
    My Apple iPhone 12 Pro running iOS 14.6 and the Apple Music app. I connected the newest version of the Apple Camera Connection Kit to the iPhone, so I could attach a USB Audi interface, and feed power to the phone and interface. 

     

    Device 2
    Apple Mac Mini (M1) running macOS 11.4, and Apple Pro Display XDR, and USB audio interface connected to the ports on the back of the display. 

     
    I use the following testing methodology to test Apple Music. 

     

    The USB audio interface is a Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB that accepts USB input and outputs audio over AES/EBU or S/PDIF (BNC). 
     
    I use a Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series 3 that identifies and decodes HDCD on all sample rates from 44.1 up through 192 kHz. When an unaltered HDCD music track is played, the HDCD indicator on the DAC is illuminated. The HDCD flag is on the 16th bit for lossless CD files and the 24th bit for high resolution files. Any alteration, DSP, volume leveling, etc... changes this least significant bit and won't enable the HDCD indicator to illuminate on my DAC. Apple Music's lossless audio that I tested was 16 bit / 44.1 kHa and the Hi-Res audio was both 24 bit / 176.4 kHz and 24 bit / 192 kHz. That's the hardware piece. 
     
    With respect to source files, here's what I do. 
     
    I have a list of roughly ten known HDCD albums (although I could use more if needed). Many of these albums were only released as HDCD encoded CDs/files. There is no alternate lossless version. For example, Reference Recordings only releases CDs that are HDCD encoded. Pearl Jam's Live On Two Legs was only released as an HDCD master for its lossless CD version. 
     
    I set a baseline by playing my own local copy of the albums and make sure the HDCD indicator illuminates. I played some Reference Recordings albums through Apple Music on macOS and made sure the app could handle bit perfect playback. All was good there. On iOS, I used used other apps such as Qobuz, to play the identical music through the identical hardware. All was good through the Qobuz app. Again, there are no alternative versions of these lossless albums. It's the same music on all the services that offer lossless streaming.
     
    Absolutely there are possible holes in my methodology, but I believe I've minimized them as much as possible. If anyone can identify a hole, please let me know and I will retest. 
     

     

    Test Results
     
    On macOS, I found no way to play bit perfect lossless or Hi-Res audio from Apple Music. In addition to a couple other nonsensical issues that I'll get into later, Apple is doing something to the music it streams. 

     

    Test 1, streaming Pearl Jam's Live On Two Legs release I was able to illuminate the HDCD indicator for the first couple seconds of playback. After this, the light went out for good, even if I skipped to the next track. When I clicked the play button to start the entire album over again, the HDCD indicator illuminated again for a few seconds. If I had to guess, I'd say this is because of watermarking mandated by the major record labels. Apple has a perfect copy of the album on its servers, the perfect copy starts, but then something changes in the stream that causes the music to not be bit perfect. I'm open to all input on what this could possibly be, but watermarking is my best educated guess for now. 

     

    Test 2, streaming the Reference Recording's album Exactly Like This from Doug MacLeod, displays different behavior and bolsters my aforementioned watermarking theory. This album, from a very small independent record label that I don't believe watermarks it's music, alters between bit perfect and not bit perfect. Upon playback, the HDCD indicator is on sometimes then off for a period of time, then back on etc... I really don't have a good guess for why this happens. I originally thought maybe an adaptive bit rate issue caused it, but even after downloading the tracks to my device offline and playing them, the problem remained. 

     

    Test 3, streaming the Reference Recording's album Break The Chain from Doug MacLeod produced the identical behavior. The only difference here was that the album was Apple's Hi-Res offering at 24 bit 176.4 kHz. Again, no solid bit perfect playback. Something is happening to the music. 

     

    A note about Apple's Hi-Res offerings that makes this a real mess. On Macs running macOS / OS X, the Apple Music app looks at the sample rate in Audio Midi upon the app's launch. Whatever same rate is set there, is the sample rate that Apple Music will use for playback as long as the app is open. OK, fine you say, Apple Music lossless is probably 16 bit / 44.1 kHz and that can be set in Audio Midi. Sure, now for the mess. Apple Music Hi-Res is be definition not 16 bit / 44.1 kHz. It go up through 24 bit / 192 kHz. OK, you can run through the whole dance closing Apple Music, manually setting the sampan rate in Audio Midi, then reopening Apple Music and off you go. Oh no you can't. Apple Music doesn't tell you what the sample rate of its Hi-Res music albums. Thus, you have no idea at what sample rate to set Audio Midi. 
     

    UPDATE: To find the sample rate of the album and play it correctly you have to play a track, click the info button to reveal the sample rate, change Audio MIDI to correct sample rate, restart Apple Music, play the track again. 

     

    How did I find the same rate? Fortunately, the Apple Music app on iOS has auto sample rate switching, which enabled me to get the rate, then sixth back to my Mac to run the tests. This was good because I could see the bit perfect audio stream for the first few seconds once I had the correct sample rate set. 


    Note: the Qobuz app plays this music bit perfect on my Mac.

     

     

    On iOS, as I just mentioned, we have the high benefit of automatic sample rate switching when playing music in Apple Music. The results for Test 1, 2, and 3 were identical on iOS as they were on macOS. Bit perfect for the first few seconds of major label albums. Bit perfect on and off for Reference recordings' albums. Apple Music on iOS switched between outputting 44.1 to outputting 176.4 without an issue. If only the audio would remain bit perfect during playback, it would be a great solution. 

     

    I will note that the Qobuz iOS app played everything bit perfect, but there needs to be an asterisk. For some reason Qobuz resamples the 176.4 Doug MacLeod album Break The Chain at 192 kHz on iOS rather than 176.4. I checked Neil Young's greatest hits to make sure I cold stream 192 material bit perfectly from Qobuz and succeeded. iOS and iPhones are fully capable of bit perfect audio at 176.4 kHz, so I'm not sure why Qobuz is resampling the RR releases. 

     


    What About mQa?

     

    There is interesting news on this front. Some labels have snuck mQa material into Apple Music just like they have on other services. Users of Apple Music can search for mQa and they'll see some albums such as the Radka Toneff Fairytales album. The albums playback as mQa on a DAC in my system that is a full mQa decoder. 

     

    I checked a number of other albums that have appeared on Tidal as mQa only and didn't find mQa for these releases on Apple Music. 

     

    As readers of Audiophile Style know, I'm no fan of mQa and am very pleased it hasn't made its way into more releases or officially into Apple Music. Those who may be reading this as fans of Apple Music, rather than typical audiophile offerings, and aren't familiar with mQa, can get the gist of it and the company from the following videos.


    Part 1 - https://youtu.be/pRjsu9-Vznc
    Part 2 - https://youtu.be/NHkqWZ9jzA0

     


    Wrap Up

     

    As it stands now, Apple Music's lossless and Hi-Res offerings are a bit of a soup sandwich. You can't really stream the audio without some type of DSP going on that makes the music different from the lossless version on CD and on other lossless services. My guess is digital watermarking. In addition, it's not possible to get a consistent lossless or Hi-Res stream for other music that I tested, such as that from Reference Recordings. When I ran into similar issues with Amazon Music HD, using its apps just like I used the Apple Music apps, I was happy to find the Amazon Music HD streams lossless and Hi-Res through third party devices from Bluesound. Given that Apple doesn't integrate with Bluesound, I can't test this. Apple does integrate with Sonos, but as I found previously (link), the new Sonos Port can't stream bit perfect either, so a test on that platform would be useless. 

     

    I will happily update this article if there are holes in my tests or something else changes. As it stands now, I don't know of any holes and I stand by these conclusions. 

     

     

     




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    I guess  I'll see if my Samsung s20Ulra resamples this..

     

    Screenshot_20210723-131737_Apple Music.jpg

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    37 minutes ago, James lee said:

    I guess  I'll see if my Samsung s20Ulra resamples this..

    Not working on a Lenovo Tab M8, all tracks play at 48kHz.

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    1 hour ago, MikeyFresh said:

    Not working on a Lenovo Tab M8, all tracks play at 48kHz.

    Not working also on Lenovo tb3-x70f all output 96kHz.

    Still to test s20 Ultra (searches house for usb C otg)

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    Oh well, no DTA really means no luck with bypassing SRC (it's gotta be system-wide, too) then?

      

    14 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

    Other than that, we'll definitely need one of those portable DAPs with Direct Transport Audio (DTA) in order to bypass SRC of Android. (e.g. Cayin / FiiO / HiBy etc.)

     

    Dunno how many of us would like to mess with rooting a device while fooling around with Magisk

     

    https://forum.xda-developers.com/redmi-note-5-pro/themes/magisk-dolby-atmos-miui-pie-stock-custom-t3924197/post81600111#post81600111

    Quote

    Ainur Narsil (i use it to remove Android mixer n take advantage of DAC)

     

    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/best-smartphone-for-audiophile-part-ii-updated-jan-2020.853115/page-32#post-13766166

    Quote

    A little tip for those with rooted device and want to have bit perfect playback. You can download the Ainur SAURON MK I.IV.II mod from XDA, which promises direct acces to the dac, without any oversampling/resampling bypassing the android system and its and optimizing for each case trough "AI installer"(should be working on most devices). Tried it on my vibe x3 and have to say I am very impressed with the results, incresed the power of turbo hifi by a bit, and sounds way clearer more musical /detailed if that makes sense, now nolonger do I need to go into headset setting to give the amp a boost. Looks like the ess dac is now always working and without resampling, no longer do i need to go into audio.poliscy and mixerpaths to stop the 48khz resampling that android loves. It all seems to be in proper sampling rate and bit debt. Saved me a lot of trouble of modding everything myself after last reset and root.

     

    It's a matter of jumping through quite a few hoops

     

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/AinurAudio

    https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/ainur_narsil

    https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/ainur-audio-sauron-mk-iii-paused-narsil-mk-i-upd-01-01-2021.3450516/

     

    BTW, here's a decent USB-C to USB-B cable from Oyaide

     

    https://www.amazon.com/NEO-Oyaide-Type-C-Class-Cable/dp/B07ZRDH5C4

    https://www.amazon.com/NEO-Oyaide-Type-C-Class-Cable/dp/B07ZRCK2TW

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    Miguel De Icaza - Distinguished Engineer - Microsoft | LinkedIn

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/migueld1

    https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1408088639435907073

    Quote

    And there it is - my teaser from this week:

    Android Apps coming to Windows!  

    Integrated straight into the OS.

    https://twitter.com/ajonoguy/status/1408221001951809539

    Quote

    Hey, regardless of the Amazon/google App Store stuff, surely you’ll also just be able to load APKs from windows right?

    https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1408222245265330178

    Quote

    Yes!

     

    Yes, you'll be able to sideload Android APKs onto Windows 11
    https://www.windowscentral.com/yes-sideload-android-apk-windows-11

     

    Download the Apple Music app if your country, region, or device doesn't have Google Play

    https://support.apple.com/HT205381

     

    So here's what we're able to find so far

     

    https://applemusic.com/baidu

    https://shouji.baidu.com/software/29026426.html

    https://swdlp.apple.com/iframes/117/en_la/117_en_la.html

    https://swdlp.apple.com/iframes/117/zh_cn/117_zh_cn.html

    https://www.apple.com.cn/apple-music/android-download/

    https://www.apple.com/lae/apple-music/android-download/

     

    Right now the following link is still giving me a file that's dated April 29th

     

    https://apps.mzstatic.com/content/android-apple-music-apk/applemusic.apk

    -rw-r----- 1 125440806 Apr 29 21:40 applemusic.apk

     

    That's still version 3.5.0 while the latest one (with lossless support) is version 3.6.0 at the moment, though it's also available somewhere else

     

     

    (Most likely Android emulators wouldn't be any good at all, we'll still have to deal with SRC for sure.)

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    6 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

    That's still version 3.5.0 while the latest one (with lossless support) is version 3.6.0 at the moment, though it's also available somewhere else

    After successfully updating Apple Music on a Lenovo Tab M8 last night, it still played all tracks at 48kHz as described above.

     

    When I then tried to update a Galaxy S7, the update wasn't shown as available, even though the Play Store says the app updated on July 22nd and my device is compatible with it. That said, I just checked again this morning and that update is now available on the S7, I just applied it, and will test with an external DAC later today or tonight.

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    19 hours ago, James lee said:

    Not working also on Lenovo tb3-x70f all output 96kHz.

    Still to test s20 Ultra (searches house for usb C otg)

    Also not working on Samsung Galaxy S7, all tracks play back at 192kHz (device native sample rate).

     

    I mention the sample rate because it is erroneously stated in various places that ALL Android devices have a native sample rate of 48kHz, which is not accurate. While 48kHz is fairly typical/standard of most Android devices, some have a 192kHz native sample rate such as the aforementioned Galaxy S7, or Moto X Pure for example, they resample everything to 192kHz unless using the UAPP app (Neutron or Hiby may also work in allowing the actual track sample rate to pass through to an external DAC).

     

    So I'm not sure why this recent Apple Music update touts "bit-for-bit accuracy" on Android, it does not work, all tracks are still resampled to the device's native sample rate by the Android audio stack.

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    5 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

    So I'm not sure why this recent Apple Music update touts "bit-for-bit accuracy" on Android, it does not work, all tracks are still resampled to the device's native sample rate by the Android audio stack.

     

    Yeah, that's just a claim on their end and anybody could do stuff like that without providing the burden of proof. There ain't any kinda liabilities whatsoever while FTC wouldn't even understand what that's actually supposed to mean at all.

     


     

    Not smartest way by any means, though it's still quite feasible?

     

    First of all, I jumped on this deal just in time and it just ended this morning

     

    https://www.facebook.com/AudioEvolutionMobile/posts/3645163772252282

     

    UAPP could make our lives much easier by restoring Android devices to an "uncrippled" state if you will

     

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro

    Quote

    • Plays natively up to 32-bit/384kHz or any other rate/resolution your USB DAC supports by completely bypassing the Android audio system.

    • UPnP/DLNA

    • UPnP media renderer and content server

    • Bit perfect playback

     

    https://zappiti.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/1943776--app-usb-audio-player-pro-dsd-tidal-qobuz

    Quote

    UPNP / DLNA servers
    This section allows you to access your music located on UPNP / DLNA servers.

     

    Quote

    Start UPnP renderer
    This option allows you to control music from a tablet or smartphone. To do this, activate the UPnP Renderer. Then install the UPnP Bubble app on your Android tablet or smartphone. In the server list, you will see USB Audio Player Pro. Then you can control playback via Bubble UPnP on your tablet or smartphone without having to turn on the TV and use a mouse. For iOS users, there are other alternative UPnP apps that you can find on the App Store.

     

    And then here's the fun part about DLNA

     

    https://www.airmusic.app

    https://www.nextpit.com/airplay-for-android-airmusic-streams-without-root-to-homepod-co

    Quote

    AirMusic not only allows streaming via AirPlay, but also supports various other streaming technologies such as DLNA, SONOS, Google Cast, AllPlay, Amazon Fire TV, Denon HEOS, and Roku. These can also be used simultaneously if desired, which is helpful if you use several different devices in your house.

     

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.airmusic.pro

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.airmusic.trial

    Quote

    Android doesn't usually allow applications to capture the audio of other applications, therefore a 'rooted' Android is required!
    On Android 10+ you can stream many apps without root if they support and allow it (eg. Deezer, Amazon Music, TuneIn and more), please try it out.

     

    Granted it's still doing something to capture the audio in first place, is that gonna be bit perfect or not?

     

    So we're essentially setting up loopback audio on the same Android device via UPnP / DLNA, and obviously it ain't ideal by any means.

     

    I paid like $5.49 for UAPP and it's back to $7.99 right now. Plus another 6 bucks for AirMusic that might not be all that useful except for mangling with the likes of Amazon Music HD / Apple Music etc. thanks to the lousy access to their API unless we're talking about the big shots such as Bluesound or Sonos

     

    https://support.sonos.com/s/article/3248?language=en_US

     


     

    Now the $64,000 question is, TIDAL just did it recently and therefore could we expect Apple to get this sorted out soon?

     

    https://darko.audio/2021/07/tidal-is-quietly-rolling-out-a-bit-perfect-android-app/

    Quote

    Seeing this problem and (finally) tackling it head-on is Tidal. The Norwegian-based streaming service has begun rolling out an update to its Android app that allows it to communicate bit-perfectly with any connected USB DAC, thus sidestepping the host OS’s resampling code.

     

    (Of course third-party integration of TIDAL Music could already achieve that a LONG time ago, and it ain't exactly rocket science to begin with.)

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    Apparently they just updated the link to download their official APK and it's the latest version 3.6.0 now

     

    https://swdlp.apple.com/iframes/117/en_la/117_en_la.html

    https://apps.mzstatic.com/content/android-apple-music-apk/applemusic.apk

    -rw-r----- 1 135701807 Jul 23 14:56 applemusic.apk
    
    sha256sum applemusic.apk
    c1040889f1d75bdbb62b0c75ba753924629fcc94b94eb864a949a4c27cb67da2  applemusic.apk

     

    Windows 11’s subsystem for Android - What we know so far

    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/windows-11-s-subsystem-for-android-what-we-know-so-far/

    Quote

    Microsoft is currently planning to launch the first preview of Android apps later this year and more details will be shared soon

     

    Windows 11 will allow side-loading of APK files

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/o7lkzt/windows_11_will_allow_sideloading_of_apk_files/

    Quote

    Even with new builds, which I am running 22000.100, the option to sideload apks does not exist yet. LitheBeep is correct about the statement where the WSA for Windows 11 isn't implemented. All I can really say for now is that we can expect minor updates from the dev channel of the Windows Insider program.

     

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    These guys didn't update their app for 2 months or so, though it would be interesting to find out if lossless were supported in future versions

     

    https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/music-player-neplayer-lite/id1047053453

    https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/hi-res-music-player-neplayer/id970389374

    Quote

    【NePLAYER Liteの主な仕様】
    ●Apple Music、Spotifyサービスに対応
    ※Apple Musicのご利用にはApple Musicアカウント
    ●Apple Watch対応

     

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.radius.neplayer_ver2&hl=en&gl=US

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.co.radius.neplayer_lite_an&hl=en&gl=US

    Quote

    Updated
    May 19, 2021

     

    I guess that maybe they're using a similar API to access Apple Music as well?

     

    https://github.com/openopus-org/concertino_api

    https://github.com/openopus-org/concertino_ios

    https://github.com/openopus-org/concertino_player

    https://apps.apple.com/app/concertino/id1506663568

    https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/gwb6hh/classical_music_app_concertino_for_apple_music/

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    So far I've been looking at almost all options under the sun, NePLAYER seemed to be the most straightforward (Android) solution out there

     

    https://www.radius.co.jp/news/2019-12-20:neplayerがapple-musicのストリーミング再生に対応!/

    ElmH2CZl.png

     

    fteOcH4l.jpg

     

    Other than that, I could only speculate that maybe some guys on XDA Developers could dig into one of those Android ROMs from FiiO and then grab whatever the heck that's able to get Direct Transport Audio enabled somewhere else

     

    http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=44290

    http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=45476

    http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=46546

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    Yesterday I upgraded my MacOS from Yosemite to Big Sur (early 2015 MacBook Pro 13” Retina).

    To try Apple Music and compare with Tidal Hifi.

    My set up is MacBook Pro/Tidal/Audirvāna/Audioquest Forest optical/Marantz PM6005/Monitor Audio Bronze BX2.

    Tidal is better than Apple lossless.

    Tidal sounds way better with Big Sur.

    Downside battery life has come down with upgrade.

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    7 hours ago, SP said:

    Yesterday I upgraded my MacOS from Yosemite to Big Sur (early 2015 MacBook Pro 13” Retina).

    To try Apple Music and compare with Tidal Hifi.

    My set up is MacBook Pro/Tidal/Audirvāna/Audioquest Forest optical/Marantz PM6005/Monitor Audio Bronze BX2.

    Tidal is better than Apple lossless.

    Tidal sounds way better with Big Sur.

    Downside battery life has come down with upgrade.

    You do have to manually change the sample rate in Utilities → Audio MIDI Setup for each different album with Apple Music, currently it doesn't do that automatically on macOS, or Android, only on iOS.

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    https://www.audioquest.com/resource/1092/DragonFly-Cobalt-FlightManual-EN-07-19.pdf#page=9

    Quote

    Red: Standby
    Green: 44.1kHz
    Blue: 48kHz
    Yellow: 88.2kHz
    Light Blue: 96kHz

     

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AppleMusic/comments/oqe2lf/does_apple_music_support_usb_dac_bypass_on_android/h6nkrwa/

    Quote

    I've turned off UHQ Upscaler When I listen to lossless 48khz I get the blue light, if I listen to hi res lossless 96khz I get the light blue color instead.By turning off UHQ Upscaler there's no upscaling or downscaling... the phone just by pass the sound straight to the Dac.

     

    Quoting from an owner of Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra who's unwilling to give 44.1kHz lossless tracks a shot, not sure if that were actually a "definitive" confirmation? Green light should look quite different for obvious reasons.

     

    Even (much) older models from Samsung already came with UHQ Upscaler by default, therefore it's hard to tell if bypassing the SRC of Android Mixer were actually ubiquitous or model-specific.

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    29 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

    Even (much) older models from Samsung already came with UHQ Upscaler by default, therefore it's hard to tell if bypassing the SRC of Android Mixer were actually ubiquitous or model-specific.

    I think use of the UHQ Upscaler only pertains to the phone's headphone output?

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    20 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

    I think use of the UHQ Upscaler only pertains to the phone's headphone output?

     

    IMHO the presence of UHQ Upscaler might not be such a big deal when it comes to the SRC of Android Mixer, its purpose should be nothing more than informing us that Samsung had to do something for the sake of adding to / subtracting from / modifying the Android audio system of specific Galaxy models.

    • If there were no UHQ Upscaler to begin with, then WGAF and just let customers to have some fun with the SRC of Android Mixer.
    • If UHQ Upscaler were actually present in the first place, then do something about the Android audio system or else UHQ Upscaler might not even work at all.

    In other words, the whole point really is all about turning off UHQ Upscaler at all times and then watch what's gonna happen to the latest version of Apple Music. So far only one particular owner of Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra *might* have confirmed it's good to go with AudioQuest DragonFly Cobalt.

     

    Personally I'm only interested in connecting to an external USB DAC and therefore I wouldn't know anything about the headphone output.

     


     

    And then here's why I'm being extra cautious

     

    http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=45037&page=1#pid131065

    Quote

    I confirmed again with the engineer that USB audio output without SRC is only supported in FiiO Music app. For 3rd party straming app, PO/LO/Spdif playback is without SRC.

     

    Gosh, ain't that kinda dumb or something?

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    22 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

    Personally I'm only interested in connecting to an external USB DAC and therefore I wouldn't know anything about the headphone output.

    That's really what I'm trying to say, my Galaxy S7 has the UHQ Upscaler off at all times, but at no point can I get any Apple Music track to play at anything but the phone's native sample rate of 192kHz, all Apple Music tracks are resampled to 192kHz no matter what, according to the DAC's sample rate indicator.

     

    If I kill Apple Music and launch UAPP, all Qobuz tracks are played at their actual sample rate as you would expect with UAPP, no resampling occurs, using the very same external DAC.

     

    The same is true on a Samsung Tab A tablet, or Lenovo Tab M8 tablet, all Apple Music tracks play at the device's native sample rate according to the DAC's sample rate indicator.

     

    My point about the UHQ Upscaler only pertaining to the device's headphone output means that setting should have no effect at all on the USB output (it should not matter whether it is on or off).

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    On 6/15/2021 at 4:16 PM, wklie said:

    That's debug logs from self compiled non-public (NDA) source code with root access to hardware, so it is not reproducible by anyone else.

     

    At least for AirPlay1, I imagine someone using one of the many Open Source distributions with shairport-sync (but we're not using it) could retest it.

     

    Do you guys have some similar for debugging DLNA instead? DLNA could actually go up to 192kHz.

     

    Rooted Android devices could handle Apple Music just fine

     

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.airmusic.trial

    If streaming (lossless) Apple Music via DLNA were indeed working, then that would provide a viable alternative for your customers to enjoy Apple Music with your products.

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    4 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

    If I kill Apple Music and launch UAPP, all Qobuz tracks are played at their actual sample rate as you would expect with UAPP, no resampling occurs, using the very same external DAC.

     

    Running 3 or 4 apps at the same time shouldn't be too bad for Galaxy S7? Let's see if we're able to give UAPP a little help with AirMusic, though it's gotta be a rooted Android device or else AirMusic and Apple Music wouldn't work together

     

    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.airmusic.trial&hl=en&gl=US

    https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/finally-direct-streaming-from-android.235835/

    Quote

    I can even stream Apple Music now from Android via DLNA!

     

    https://www.airmusic.app

    https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/01/05/airmusic-lets-you-use-apples-airplay-on-android-without-root/

    Quote

    AirMusic lets you use AirPlay, Google Cast, Roku, DLNA, Sonos, AllPlay, Samsung Multiroom, and FireTV, so it really is a bit more than just AirPlay — AirPlay is just especially notable due to how locked-in a system it normally is.

     

     

    https://www.facebook.com/zappiti/photos/2873248719576262

    Quote

    You can plug any USB DAC on your Zappiti to playback almost any audio files including DSD and stream your favorite music in glorious 24-Bit from Tidal or Qobuz. In addition, you can even control it trough your tablet or smartphone using Bubble UPNP app (in this case, you just have to turn ON the UPNP server in USB Audio Player PRO app).

     

    [App] USB Audio Player PRO: DSD, Tidal & Qobuz

    https://zappiti.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/1943776--app-usb-audio-player-pro-dsd-tidal-qobuz

     

    Quick question for @Cebolla, could a single rooted Android actually allow us to do something like this or not?

     

    Apple Music (streaming ALAC lossless format)

    AirMusic (as a sender of DLNA)

    USB Audio Player Pro (as a receiver of DLNA)

    USB DAC (bypassing the SRC of Android Mixer)

     

    If not, how about throwing BubbleUPnP Server into the mix and try OpenHome instead?

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    Here we go, so it's one of those bloody expensive flagship models with Android 11 on top of all kinda bells and whistles

     

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AppleMusic/comments/oqe2lf/does_apple_music_support_usb_dac_bypass_on_android/h76skts/

    Quote

    For those interested in the new Sony Xperia 1III, I tested it with an xDuoo XD05 Bal DAC/Amp and the LCD shows 192kHz for 24/192KHz files and corresponding kHz correctly for all files played so I believe the Sony bypasses the android drivers. I did not make any changes to the sound settings. I haven't tested with TIDAL or other music apps as I previously used an iPhone so I was extremely curious about how Sony's commitment to audio would handle Apple music.

     

    I found a random picture of xDuoo XD05 Bal and therefore most likely Sony Xperia 1 III should be good to go, if you're willing to spend all that money just for the sake of Apple Music that is. LOL

    gw6tfwNl.jpg

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    Thanks very much for the in-depth test. Is it possible for you to test Amazon Music from iOS via Airplay 2 Currently, I have Bluesound Node 2i, Apple Music & Amazon Music. Much appreciated!

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    Hello Audiophile Style community, this is my very first post.

     

    Like many, I was excited by the promise of lossless and high res streaming from the Apple Music service. However I found that, subjectively, I prefer the playback of my digital downloads and cd rips from Roon rather than Apple Music. I came across this thread looking for some sort of proof of wether the Apple Music App plays back bit perfectly when a mac or iOS device is connected directly to a DAC via USB. I confess I have not read this entire thread, so I apologize in advance if this is duplicate content. To my knowledge however, I don't think anyone else has published a test like this.

     

    I own an RME ADI DAC 2 FS. RME provides series of bit test files (16, 24 and 32 bit files for 44.1, 48, 96 and 192 sample rates). The RME flashes Passed if the test file is received as bit perfect and these tests pass perfectly from Audirvana and ROON on my MacBook Pro. So presumably, playing these files through an Apple Music app (MacOS or iOS) we will know for sure whether the App itself is passing bit perfect data

     

    I converted the RME WAV test files to ALAC and ran a few of tests. NB sound check and DSP were turned off in MacOS and iOS for these tests. Results of the first couple of tests are similar to what was reported in the first post. But the last test was a bit of a surprise. 

     

    First test was to play the test files from the Apple Music App on my Macbook Pro. All test files passed except for the 16/48 file. (32bit files flash Passed as 24bit which is the same result as running the test through Audirvana or ROON). Since the Music App does not perform automatic sample rate switching, one must switch the sample rate with the Midi app and restart Apple Music for each sample rate test!!

     

    For the second test I copied the test files to my iPad Air and ran the same test from Onkyo’s HF player app and the results were the same. All tests passed except for the 16/48 file. As we know, iOS does sample rate switching. Yea!

     

    Sounds promising? Here’s where things get dicy.

     

    For the last test, I turned off the Apple Music sync function and copied the RME test files over to my iPad Air and played them directly through the Apple Music App on the iPad. Here are the results:

    • 16/48 - Failed
    • 24/48 - Returned “Bit Test 16 Bit passed”
    • 32/48 - Returned “Bit Test 16/24 Bit passed” flashed between 16/24
    • 16/96 - Failed
    • 24/96 - Returned “Bit Test 16 Bit passed”
    • 32/96 - Returned “Bit Test 16/24 Bit passed” flashed between 16/24
    • 16/192 - Failed
    • 24/192 - Returned “Bit Test 16 Bit passed”
    • 32/192 - Returned “Bit Test 16/24 Bit passed” flashed between 16/24
    • 16/44 - Failed
    • 16/24 - Returned “Bit Test 16 Bit passed”
    • 16/32 - Returned “Bit Test 16/24 Bit passed” flashed between 16/24

    All the 16 bit tests failed including the most important one 16/44! It also appears the 24 bit files are truncated to 16 bits. I'm a bit surprised considering everything passed through the Onkyo HF player on my iPad

     

    I compared the playback of digital downloads I’ve purchased or ripped through Roon (server / ethernet connection) with the same files streamed trough the Apple Music service (iPad USB). Apple music sounds very good, but subjectively, I feel playback through Roon sounds better.

     

    All subjectivity aside, I (like many here) simply want to know if Apple is passing bit perfect data via USB through their Apple Music App.

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    Update 

    The logical response is that there must be something wrong with the test setup. I’m scratching my head wondering why. There must be a logical reason…

    I repeated the test by copying over the original WAV test files from RME. I don’t believe there is a way to get info on a music file copied to an iDevice to verify it transferred correctly. The odd thing is that HF player will play non-DMR music copied to an iDevice. Every test file passes when played through HR player into the RME with the WAV files. These WAVs returned the same results as the original test when played through Apple Music app on iOS. Same files, different iOS apps used for playback with different results. Very strange

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