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    The Computer Audiophile

    A New Listening Room Part One

    A dedicated listening room is not a luxury for me, it's a necessity. I realize this is a luxurious necessity, but nonetheless it's a requirement for my job. Fortunately I have an understanding wife who has always encouraged me to improve my listening room given that I spend so much time in this room.

     

    We moved into our house in April 2008, about six months after Computer Audiophile launched. My original listening room in the basement of this house evolved over the years through several cosmetic upgrades such as fresh paint and new carpet. I didn't make any major changes to the space in ten years. In August 2018 I started thinking about changing this 14.5' x 17.5' x 6.5' (LxWxH) room to get better sound. After  many days of research I admitted defeat because my ceiling height was always going to be 6.5'. I just wasn't willing to dig out the existing basement floor and underpin the foundation to increase this height. 

     

    The other option was to move my listening room into the attic space above the main level of the house. This space was previously finished but needed some structural changes and a technology upgrade. Given the dimensions of the attic are 33' 9" x 13' 9" x 9', I was willing to go for it and move my listening room.  This move started as a small project but quickly turned into a complete refinishing of the space with new paint, new carpet, walls removed, railings put up, fiber optic cable installed, and a new bathroom. Doesn't everyone have a bathroom in their listening rooms? :~)

     

    What follows is part one of my listening room transformation with pictures and measurements. In part two I will install the acoustic absorption and diffusion panels and conduct further measurements of the room. I will also do some fine tuning to eke out all the sound quality I can get.

     


    Requirements

     

    Before moving to the new listening room I needed to have all the demolition and reconstruction done by a local contractor. I took on the task of running two fiber optic cables, one cat 7 cable, and moving my electrical sub panel from the old room to the new room. 

     

     

    Wiring

     

    I couldn't get the contractor to the house right away, so I did the wiring first. 

     

    All my computer network components are housed in the basement near my old listening room. This is because the fiber optic cable from CenturyLink goes into the basement for its 1 Gbps up/down internet service and this is a good space for noisy NAS units and computers to reside without disturbing anyone. The challenge was to get a wired network, and wireless access point, into the new listening room without tearing up the house or running cables through the brick walls outside.

     

    My house was built with plaster and lathe walls in 1941. It's a modest middle class abode with neat coved ceilings, original wood floors, and most of its original features. I just couldn't tear it apart, to run wires, in good conscience (more on this later). Thus, I invited my wife's electrician cousin over to help me fish wires from the south east corner of the basement to the north west corner of the attic. 

     

    I opted to run two fiber optic cables and a single category 7 copper cable from the main network switch in the basement to the attic. Why fiber? Why two? Why copper? Why one? 

     

    I selected fiber cable as the main conduit between the switches because it's very future resistant (nothing is future proof). If I want to run a 10 Gbps network in the future, I can do it over this fiber cable without an issue. Fiber can also travel longer distances than copper. The single mode fiber I selected can run over kilometers rather than the 300 meter copper limit. I certainly don't need a fiber cable to run kilometers, but I wanted a long enough cable to be able to move the switches on either end without length restrictions. In other words, I gave myself plenty of slack on each end of the cable to move the switches to any corner of the house.

     

    I purchased two 300 feet fiber optic cables from Ubiquiti (model FC-SM-300). Each of these cables has six strands of single mode G.657.A2 optical cable wrapped in kevlar yarn and an outdoor jacket (image). The reason I purchased two cables is because my attic has empty space behind the walls, where I placed switches, on each side of the livable space. This enabled me to access a fiber-connected switch from either side of the listening room without running a visible Ethernet cable across the floor.

     

     

    storage-space-v2.jpg

    Storage space behind listening room walls on each side.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    On each side of the listening room, behind the walls, I installed an 8 port Ubiquiti UniFi managed PoE+ gigabit switch (model US‑8‑150W). I didn't need PoE, but this is the only 8 port UniFi switch with SFP ports for fiber optic modules. I purchased four Ubiquiti UF-SM-1G-S fiber optic modules for the switches. Two placed in my 24 port UniFi switch (model US-24) in the basement and one in each of the 8 port switches behind the listening room walls. Attached to one of the 8 port switches I connected a Ubiquiti UniFi HD wireless access point (model UAP-AC-HD).

     

     

    ubnt-8.jpg

    US-8-150W switch, UAP-AC-HD access point, FC-SM-300 fiber optic cable.

     

     

     

     

    I ran the category 7 copper cable just because I could and I wanted to see how it compares to the fiber cables. The copper cable I purchased was a 100 meter 600MHz Duronic Black Network Cable (link). As this is only for testing I see no need to purchase one of these for each switch. It should be noted that this cable is specified to work with 10 Gbps Ethernet, but at this distance I highly doubt it could support the maximum speed. 

     

    Directly outside my original listening room I had a dedicated electrical sub panel. For the new room I opted to move the sub panel up to the space behind the listening room wall in the attic. Rather than run a completely new electrical wire, I purchased 75 feet of 6 gauge (6/3 NM-B W/G) copper electrical wire and a junction box to connect to the original sub panel wiring and run it up to the attic from that point rather than run it all the way back to the main electrical panel. There is nothing between the sub panel and the main electrical panel other than the junction box tying both electrical wires together. 

     

    In this sub panel I have six dedicated circuits to use any way I need. Currently I have three 20 amp circuits going to a single duplex outlet. Two of the outlets are from Transparent Audio. They are the same outlets used in the company's Reference Power Isolator. I originally planned to place the audio components either along the west wall or between the loudspeakers. Thus, I had the power outlets placed near the aforementioned locations. However, I've since moved the components to the east wall and need to run power from the sub panel, under the floor (between the joists), to an outlet close to the components along the east wall of the listening room. 

     

     

     


    Fishing Wire

     

    Running the fiber optic, copper data, and copper electrical wires from the basement to the attic was a serious challenge. My electrician Kevin found a path for these wires that only required cutting a small hole in one wall on the main level of the house. Fortunately this hole was in placed in a sheetrock "box" constructed in the mid-nineties to cover the pipes for the bathroom that was later installed in the attic. I'm going to put a heat register / duct cover over this hole which will allow future access should it be required. 

     

    The circuitous path of the data wires was from the south east corner of the basement horizontally along the unfinished ceiling, over HVAC ducts between the old listening room and main basement living room, into a utility closet, vertical through the ceiling and between the bathroom wall and my daughter's bedroom wall on the main level, horizontally between the ceiling of her room and the floor of the attic, then diagonally out through the floor of the attic behind the new listening room wall.

     

     

     

    closet-downstairs.jpg closet-2.jpg

    Closet in the basement where the cables started routing vertical through the floor.

     

     

     

     

     

    We ran the cables from the attic down to the basement, taking advantage of gravity to help pull them through the tight openings. My main concern with the fiber optic cables was breaking the glass inside. Anyone who has ever snaked cabled through walls like this knows that it isn't always smooth sailing. We had to pull fairly hard on the cables a couple times because they got hung up on obstructions we couldn't see in the walls. I could feel the rubbery plastic jacket of the Ubiquiti fiber cable stretching as I pulled it through. To my surprise the fiber cables came through in perfect condition. I guess they don't make them like they used to, but in a good way. Old school fiber cables are prone to braking easily. 

     

     

    attic-opening.jpg

    Opening in the attic floor behind listening room wall where cables routed.

     

     

     

    Note: The Ubiquiti fiber SFP modules only require one of the six strands of fiber in the Ubiquiti fiber cables. This leaves five "extra" strands of fiber to be used in other switches. Should the cable have been pulled too hard during installation I at least had six internal fiber cables to try to get working. In other words, inside the single cable there is six redundant cables in case one gets broken (because I only needed a single fiber cable from within each FC-SM-300 cable).

     

    Running the 6 gauge electrical wire through the walls was an exercise that I hope to never do again. That stuff is stiff, thick, and doesn't slide through tiny openings without "grabbing" on because the coating on the cable isn't slippery. Needless to say, it took both me and Kevin the electrician quite a while to get the job done.

     

     

    6awg.jpg

    6AWG electrical wire going through the floor heading to main level and on to basement.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Demolition / Construction

     

    By no means is my room in the same class as many high end dedicated listening rooms we've all seen online. My goal was to do this entire project for a reasonable amount of money. In other words, the sky wasn't the limit and cost was an object. 

     

    The attic space has a total length of 33 feet 9 inches. The existing bathroom consumes 8 feet 1 inch on the north end of the space. That leaves the listening room with a length of 25 feet 8 inches. The width of the room originally varied because of a coset in the south east corner. That closet was marked for demolition to widen the room and provide space for my desk and even out the width to 13 feet nine inches from front to back. Another obstacle in the room was 2 feet high wall with 1 foot high railing around the staircase entrance/exit on the south end. This wall was also marked for removal and in its place a new three feet high bannister. 

     

    My options for this listening room were a bit limited by of course cost but also because I wasn't willing to change anything about the rest of the house below this room. For example, I ask in the forum about using a rubber sound barrier under the carpet and before I knew it the recommendations were to rip up the ceiling below the room and put in a sand barrier etc... That was a bit too over the top for my situation although I'm totally on board with going all out in the right circumstances. I'd love a cost no object / no construction constraints type of room as much as the next guy. 

     

    Given that the attic space was finished decades after the house was built, I was totally fine with demoing every piece of the room. I thought long and hard about making the sheetrock side walls more solid with additional layers glued and screwed to the original walls, but this would've reduced the width of the room by several inches. I opted to leave the existing side walls for now because I can always address them down the road if necessary.

     

    I'll save everyone the cosmetic details about paint, light fixtures (although I purchased three from the 1940s through Etsy for this room), and door knobs (also from the 1940s and from Etsy). During my research I was advised that wool carpet was the best flooring choice for listening rooms. I was happy to hear that because I love everything about wool carpet (research it if you're so inclined). I had 100% New Zealand wool carpet installed once the demolition and construction was complete. 

     

     

    south.jpg north.jpg

    The new listening room before demolition started.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    demo-1.jpg demo-2.jpg

    demo-3.jpg demo-4.jpg

    The new listening room during demolition.

     

     

     

     

     

    Current Situation

     

    Currently I have the audio system installed where I want it, with speakers on the north end of the room and components along the east wall. I originally tried the components placed between the speakers but that lasted about 48 hours before I grew tired of looking at the mess of cables and walking over everything to enter the bathroom. I'm using some no name speaker cables until I can replace my 8 feet long Transparent Audio Reference speaker cable with a longer pair. 

     

     

     


    How Does It Sound

     

    The big question for me is how does the new listening room sound? This is such a frustrating piece of building a new room. The first thing I did once construction was complete was to bring up my audio system and click play. After all, that's why this room was built. I caution everyone to NOT follow in my footsteps by playing audio without anything else in the room. The sound bouncing off the bare walls with zero furniture obstructions to diffuse or absorb the audio was horrendous. I took a few measurements and almost cried as I sent them to friends and our own DSP expert Mitch Barnett @mitchco. Fortunately the unanimous response I received from everyone was to relax, this was only the starting point. 

     

    Shortly before moving the audio system to the new room, I purchased a miniDSP measurement microphone (model UMIK-1). I took measurements of my original room so I could at least have a baseline to compare the new sound to the old via objective data. I'll do the subjective analysis for the rest of my life no doubt. 

     

    Here is a measurement of my original listening room in the basement. The room in which I reviewed components for 10+ years. 

     

     

    original-room.png

    Original basement sound room measurements.

     

     

     

    In the days after my initial listening sessions I brought up my 12 feet long desk, an additional chair, a trunk to be placed in a corner, and a few items to place on my desk. I also had the general contractor fix the sheetrock access panels that lead from the listening room into the attic space behind the walls. These panels were too big to fit tightly after the carpet was installed. During the initial listening and measurements these panels were placed close to the openings but there was a several inch gap enabling sound to leak out behind the walls in three of the four corners of the room. 

     

    The sound right now is definitely livable and will enable me to review components with a high degree of confidence in my conclusions. It helps to have the measurements to know where the peaks and dips in frequencies are when as I listen. 

     

    However, I am nowhere near satisfied with the sound and have opened a project with Vicoustic of Portugal. For those unfamiliar with the process, there is a page on Vicoustic's website to formally open a project (link). All that's required is to complete a small survey about the listening space and attach images and drawings (as crude or as sophisticated as one has available). In a couple weeks Vicoustic delivers a complete proposal with 3D drawings, expected sonic results, and proposed acoustic absorption / diffusion product recommendations. 

     

    I completed this process and received a full proposal from Vicoustic. In Part 2 of this series I'll upload the entire document. For now, here is a a 3D drawing of what the finished product will look like when I have the absorbers and diffusors installed.

     

     

    3D-Drawing.jpg

    Vicoustic 3D drawing.

     

     

     

    Wrap Up

     

    As it stand now, I really like the new listening room. I can't wait to get the acoustic panels installed to bring the sound quality up quite a bit. The room is a giant instrument and has the biggest affect on the sound quality of music. Forget about MQA, lossy, lossless, bit perfect, upsampling, music servers, or even speakers. If the room isn't good, the sound isn't good no matter what one does to the system.

     

    More to come in part two.

     

     

     

     

    Image Gallery

     

    bare-south.jpg bare-north.jpg

    When the sound was at its worst without anything in the room.

     

     

     

     

     

    room-4.jpg room-3.jpg

    room-1.jpg room-2.jpg

    room-5.jpg room-6.jpg

    Current images as of today November 09, 2018.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    16 hours ago, STC said:

     

    Listening room meant to enjoy the music is not the same as the listening room where they master or record. Somehow, the distinction got blurred and some try to recreate the studio acoustics.  Maybe, i got confused with Chris’s intention. 

     

     

    Completely agree. A domestic setting will often serve multiple purposes. There is a limit to how much acoustic treatments will be acceptable. Listening position in a domestic setting may necessitate sitting close to a wall even though the detrimental aspects of this position are very easily audible. Multi-million $ studio facilities have a much higher priority on sound quality versus a multi-use domestic setting. That said, the control room needs to contain lots of equipment - the mixing console in front of the mix engineer is often an unavoidable acoustic problem itself. 

     

    I have never seen or heard of a mastering or mix engineer that would be comfortable working up against a wall. The bass is terrible and the soundstage collapses with the multitude of close proximity reflections off the wall next to the listener. I would not be comfortable recommending anything less than 6 feet from a wall for a listening position. In a domestic setting, I would suggest to just pull out a chair and sit in a better position when serious listening and put the chair away when not needed - a great way to have your cake and eat it!

     

     

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    3 ft. will be fine

     

    or closer and use room tmts. behind your seat

     

    Master Handbook of Acoustics by F. Alton Everest  (Author), Ken Pohlmann (Author) should be your bible

     

    Springer has a tome out also

     

    this is not rocket surgery

     

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    Poor OP. He will be more confused now. One member is suggesting not less than 6 feet and another member - quoting someone - tells the distance shouldn't be more than 3 feet. Which one is correct and why?

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    2 hours ago, STC said:

    Poor OP. He will be more confused now. One member is suggesting not less than 6 feet and another member - quoting someone - tells the distance shouldn't be more than 3 feet. Which one is correct and why?

    It is about time difference of direct sound and reflected sound. 6 feet traveling difference (also applies to sides) is the minimum  for our auditory system not to confuse direct with reflected so a 3 feet wall distance gives 6 feet back and forth but more if quite better!

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    36 minutes ago, monteverdi said:

    It is about time difference of direct sound and reflected sound. 6 feet traveling difference (also applies to sides) is the minimum  for our auditory system not to confuse direct with reflected so a 3 feet wall distance gives 6 feet back and forth but more if quite better!

     

    If it is more than 6 feet than the reflected sound will arrive later than 6 ms. That is enough to perceive short pulse as two distinct sound and when you approach 10 feet or more you fall within the threshold of echo which from ranges 20 ms and 40ms for all complex music. 

     

     

     

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    Chris,

     

    Congratulations on your new dedicated listening room.  I'm really excited for you.

     

    There has been several comments on treating your room.  It is truly science and I get very interested.

     

    I am sure you will find the finish line.  I hope you will concede that there will be some compromises over all.  If not . . . you are going to forever figget and that's frustrating.  I stopped buying equipment years ago "after" I treated my room.

     

    I believe, beyond doubt , bass trap management is as import as dealing with placement of speakers, listening seat, and reflection management.  This may sound oversimplified but .....managing timing and managing bass IS room treatment and the key to hearing deep into the artistry. 

     

    Congratulations Again!!!!

     

     

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    On 11/20/2018 at 7:37 PM, STC said:

    Listening room meant to enjoy the music is not the same as the listening room where they master or record. Somehow, the distinction got blurred and some try to recreate the studio acoustics.  Maybe, i got confused with Chris’s intention. 

     

    On 11/20/2018 at 8:08 PM, STC said:

    Room acoustics is more of an art than science. I have given up on room measurement long ago when the results did not sound correct to my ears.

    Not sure I can agree on the logic behind these two posts.

    But once again we fall back to the ideal between designing a system for accuracy or tuning to  a personal preference.

    IMHO I believe the journey should begin with a path that leads to the most accurate, transparent package the builder can accomplish A system most capable of reproducing that which the artist and producer intended.

    After that tuning to a preference is a piece of cake.

     

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    9 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

     

    Not sure I can agree on the logic behind these two posts.

    But once again we fall back to the ideal between designing a system for accuracy or tuning to  a personal preference.

    IMHO I believe the journey should begin with a path that leads to the most accurate, transparent package the builder can accomplish A system most capable of reproducing that which the artist and producer intended.

    After that tuning to a preference is a piece of cake.

     

     

    Accuracy is not important. What matters to the listeners is the how real is the sound as listened in a real space. 

     

    Technically, a DSD recording of a guitar and sax ( spread by 60 degrees) will be accurate compared to 16/44.1 format. But....if you play the DSD in a single speaker and the 16/44.1 with two speakers then the 16/44.1 will be closer to realism. The reason why we prefer an inferior format?  

     

    In making of recordings, we strive to xapture the direct sound and a reasonable amount of reverbs. Some prefer without any reverbs so that the can artificially add the reverbs later. In a good recording environment it always the natureal reverbs is prefered over the artificial one. 

     

    To record the natural reverbs, the microphone is placed about 50% of the critical distance sometimes even lesser. The spot where the microphone is placed is not the usual spot where we consider as the best seat to listen to the performance. 

     

    In any case, whether it is a live or in studio recording with dead room the 360 defrees ambience is eliminated largely to avoid making the recording muddy. In studio, they achieve this by elimination as much reverbs as possible.  

     

    In listening room, we want those missing reverbs which will be added by your room reflection. Often, the simplest aim is to creat Live end and dead end. Live end is where the listener sits. 

     

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    On 11/24/2018 at 11:34 PM, STC said:

    Accuracy is not important. What matters to the listeners is the how real is the sound as listened in a real space. 

    In who's opinion?

    If it's your system then your opinion is all that matters.

    But that has little to nothing to do with reproducing what the engineer heard and what he hoped you would be able to recreate.

    YMMV

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    54 minutes ago, Sal1950 said:

    In who's opinion?

    If it's your system then your opinion is all that matters.

    But that has little to nothing to do with reproducing what the engineer heard and what he hoped you would be able to recreate.

    YMMV

     

    Accuracy of what? Positional accuracy? Or the timbre accuracy of the instruments? Or the accuracy of the dynamic range? A playback can never be the real event. Even if you employ a full 360 degree system to reproduce them, it will be a virtual reality of the  event but not the actual event. 

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    On November 24, 2018 at 10:34 PM, STC said:

     

    Accuracy is not important. What matters to the listeners is the how real is the sound as listened in a real space. 

     

     

     

    In listening room, we want those missing reverbs which will be added by your room reflection. Often, the simplest aim is to creat Live end and dead end. Live end is where the listener sits. 

     

    I will respectfully disagree...

     

    I believe what should matter to the "listener" is how faithful the sound is to the original performance once it is played back in listeners space.

     

    I'm thinking about your math ...you say you design your recordings with the thought of my room adding reverb you intentionally block.  Then I play back a recording that the sound engineers purposely and thoughtfully recorded the performance and the reverb (space) in that performance.  Then I add my room reverbs to this thoughtful recording. . . and I loose (accuracy) faithfulness.

     

     

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    32 minutes ago, HIFI said:

    I'm thinking about your math ...you say you design your recordings with the thought of my room adding reverb you intentionally block.  Then I play back a recording that the sound engineers purposely and thoughtfully recorded the performance and the reverb (space) in that performance.  Then I add my room reverbs to this thoughtful recording. . . and I loose (accuracy) faithfulness.

     

    The term “Accuracy” is confusing in this context. A piano can have a different sound when heard one foot away compared to hearing from a 30 feet distance. So microphones placed at the respective spot will have two different sound. Which one is the accurate sound?

     

    What we consider as accurate is when the piano sound comes from the speakers is to sound recreating the realism as hearing the real piano. A large part of the realism that we perceive is not the real sound of the instruments but a mixture of the recording and your venue’s acoustics signature. Otherwise, every recording made as original as the real insturment should sound accurate in an anechoic chamber which we all know the sound is unnatural despite being 100% accurate reproduction of the instruments. 

     

    I will stop here as I have deviated from the Op. 

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    2 hours ago, STC said:

     

    The term “Accuracy” is confusing in this context. A piano can have a different sound when heard one foot away compared to hearing from a 30 feet distance. So microphones placed at the respective spot will have two different sound. Which one is the accurate sound?

     

    What we consider as accurate is when the piano sound comes from the speakers is to sound recreating the realism as hearing the real piano. A large part of the realism that we perceive is not the real sound of the instruments but a mixture of the recording and your venue’s acoustics signature. Otherwise, every recording made as original as the real insturment should sound accurate in an anechoic chamber which we all know the sound is unnatural despite being 100% accurate reproduction of the instruments. 

     

    I will stop here as I have deviated from the Op. 

    Actually this part of thread and your final response from you supports my original disagreement. It also very importantly supports OP.

     

    If you recorded, with two microphones, one foot away or 30 foot away in your recording "space" and  intentionally remove your "space" in your recording then that is a exactly what my listening space should reproduce.  In you original theory you are expecting my listening space is going to recreate the reverb you propose will make it real.  That is 100 percent incorrect. 

     

    No matter what you lay down as an original recording it is the job of a appropriately treated room to have very little influence and ONLY playback your original recording.  If I have a performance that was recorded in a church....I want to experience the entire performance including the recording space (church).  If I have an artist that put down his/her first recorded performance in their basement I want to experience the entire performance including the recorded space (basement). 

     

    In short....I don't want you to sit in my chair and say something like "it sounds so great as if he/she is in my room singing to me". I want your brain to be so faked out that you say "it sounds as though I am in his/her basement experiencing their performance ". This can only be done by hearing deep into an original recorded performance and my room having very little influence. 

     

     

     

     

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    Access to the "breakroom" is considerably improved in that image! 

     

    The larger part of my doubts concerning your multiple uses of the top level in your home have been rescinded.  Absence of fiber optic twinkling stars or some other break with austerity notwithstanding.  👤

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    it's all absorption foam - no tube traps or diffusers?

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    2 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

    it's all absorption foam - no tube traps or diffusers?

    To quote my post, "Most of the acoustics have arrived from Vicoustic!"

     

    Diffusors on back order. 

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    On 5/17/2019 at 3:10 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

    To quote my post, "Most of the acoustics have arrived from Vicoustic!"

     

    Diffusors on back order. 

    What about bass traps?  Seems like a little amount of treatments to me

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    3 minutes ago, jtwrace said:

    What about bass traps?  Seems like a little amount of treatments to me

    Don’t think they’ll be needed based on sound right now. 

     

     

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    13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Don’t think they’ll be needed based on sound right now. 

     

     

    Measure, measure, measure!

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