Devialet Unleashes Phantom

Looks more like a coffeemaker to me. (Agreed re Dyson "quality," by the way. Luckily we only have the relatively cheap "stick" for quick cleanups in mudroom and kitchen.)

That's the same thing I was thinking. I' will hold any observations until someone hears it.

Well, we have an upright Dyson hoover, because it saves space. But it does not come without compromises. It's compact and looks great, but it is incredibly noisy, cleaning corners is a fiddle and every time I empty the thing I wish we had a Miele to clean up the mess that ensues.

Which brings me to the Phantoms. I listened to them yesterday at Harrods in London and came to the conclusion that they are a lifestyle product - not an audiophile product. For all the hyperbole the Devialet uses about how perfect the Phantoms are, to me they sounded like a sub-woofer setup with small-ish satellite speakers.

There was a LOT of bass (volume-wise), which is impressive from such a small enclosure, but that was the very clear focus of the demonstration. The bass was tight and quite dry, but its character was more suited to a home cinema set up than a music lover's system.

The Phantoms seemed far from linear across the frequency band, with a strong focus on bass and a (perceived) gap in the lower mid-range to the upper bass. Voices sounded restricted (little projection outside the speakers) and treble lacked real sparkle.

The design may appeal, even be useful, like with Dyson hoovers. The idea of saving space looked very attractive. But for me, the Phantoms compromise too much on sound quality to be a serious contender.

Based on sound quality alone, the Phantoms can be beaten for less money.

One correction to my earlier post: I used 'tight and dry' to describe the bass, which was a poor choice of words as it might be incorrectly interpreted.

The bass was not woolly, but what was actually impressive was that it did not at all sound boxed-in. Unfortunately, as the latter was the case for mid and treble, it just added to a sense of the bass being overblown.

As I don't seem to be able to edit my earlier post, separately a correction to what I wrote earlier: I used 'tight and quite dry' to describe the bass, which was a poor choice of words as it might be incorrectly interpreted.

The bass was not woolly (although the small glass demo room did lead to some boom), but what was actually impressive was that it did not at all sound boxed-in. Unfortunately, the latter WAS the case for mid and treble, so it just added to a sense of the bass being overblown.

We also briefly listened to a Devialet 200 with B&W floorstanding speakers in the same room, which sounded much better. That sounded much more realistic, more open and more evenly distributed across the frequency range.

The Phantoms seemed far from linear across the frequency band, with a strong focus on bass and a (perceived) gap in the lower mid-range to the upper bass. Voices sounded restricted (little projection outside the speakers) and treble lacked real sparkle.

I am somewhat concerned, especially with Devialet making so much noise about how they have a flat frequency response without any distortion, but I suppose the alternative is the white Genelecs, which are about 50% more expensive for the 8351 and--at least according to the specs from both manufacturers--don't extend down nearly as far into the lower frequencies. (38Hz rather than 16Hz)

Are you sure that's not just poor placement in a showroom, and the fact that they (currently?) lack room correction?

 

I am somewhat concerned, especially with Devialet making so much noise about how they have a flat frequency response without any distortion, but I suppose the alternative is the white Genelecs, which are about 50% more expensive for the 8351 and--at least according to the specs from both manufacturers--don't extend down nearly as far into the lower frequencies. (38Hz rather than 16Hz)

The room did not help, but I listened to a different (admittedly more expensive) system in the same room and that sounded much better.

[...] don't extend down nearly as far into the lower frequencies.[...]

If you're looking for bass, you might well like the Phantoms. In that respect they were very impressive. Hence my earlier comparison to sub-woofer systems with small-ish satellite speakers; the bass sounded big, but mid-range and treble clearly sounded like coming from a much smaller speaker.

For me, voices and sense of scale are very important - the ability with live music to visualise the room and pin-point where each musician is on the stage - something you should be able to expect at this price point. Listening to classical and big band music, there was no sense of the scale of the stage. Also, voices lacked warmth. It just seemed that the mid-range drivers maybe could not pick up well in the (for them) lower end of the frequency range.

So the bass was impressive, I just found the rest lacking. I hope that helps.

I had a chance to hear these a couple of weeks ago at Definitive Audio's annual Music Matters event.

Based upon the buzz both here and elsewhere, I was thinking, "wow, can I really get sound from a pair of speakers for $6K that rivals my entirely too damn expensive system""? so I had high hopes going into the show.

Now before I go into details, yes, I know it is a show. I know we're listening in less than ideal conditions, with unfamiliar music, etc. On the other hand, all the manufacturers are up against the same thing.

Devialet's demo was the first room we visited and they had them in one of the small side rooms. The speakers were set up on prototype stands and we sat front row center. They played some Beyoncé and some other pop songs. John Atkinson was in the room and played some tracks he had recorded in Portland - a track from a choir and another track from an organ recital.

Total of about 30 minutes or so. Very impressive for the first couple of minutes and from an engineering perspective, it is a game changer. The amount of sound and frequency range they are getting out of them is impressive. They pump out a lot of bass for something so small.

But they didn’t really grab me. I didn’t get the sense of space that I think you should from JA’s recording. And they sounded bright, even on JA's recordings...I wasn’t cringing when it happened but it was close. I was really hoping to be blown away by them, but I wasn’t. In the quick time we had with them, they sounded “hi-fi” to me, really un-involving. I had several friends at the show and they felt the same way. And I felt, after the demo, that I didn't want/need to come back and listen to them again.

Now compare this to the second room we visited -- ARC, Wilson Audio, AMG & Transparent Audio. Yes, this system probably retails for $100K or so, but, WOW. heck, even Michael Fremer's vinyl sounded good (and I have been using computer audio exclusively for about 10 years now). Even sitting in the last row of about 8 rows, this was a system I wanted to go back to listen to sometime -- even though I probably would not buy any of this gear since I don't want tube amps and, until this demo, Wilson's don't work for me, I'll take my Vivid B-1s, thank you.

In the third room we hit, it was Classe's new Class D monoblocks & Sigma SSP, B&W 802 diamonds and JL Audio's new subs (2). We were told that retail was about $35K. Definitely not in the same class as the ARC room, but still more interesting (sound-wise) than Devialet's room. The final room was the Linn Akurate/Akubarik Exakt system...same system as reviewed here on CA ($41K retail). Not impressed at all and I have Linn Solo amps, and their Klimax Kontrol preamp (Used to have a Klimax DS player, got rid of it for an ARC Ref DAC). -- neither one of these systems made enough of an impression on me that I would want to go back and audition by myself.

I would have to put Linn's demo as the worst, Devialet's third, Class #2 and ARC #1. So from that standpoint, what you're getting for your money is pretty impressive.

Would I buy Phantom Silvers if I was just starting out? I dunno. On the one hand you're getting a DAC, streamer and speakers for less than $6K, so you get a lot for your money and maybe better WAF too, but you're stuck in the Devialet ecosystem -- you have to dump everything if you want to upgrade, well, you don't have to dump it if you have another room to put these in. But still, you're starting at zero again if you want to do something with your main rig.

Alternatively, I think you could put together a pretty good system (especially used) that would be more involving and that you'd really want to listen to instead of reading with music in the background. And you could swap out stuff and upgrade, while not starting at zero. And let's admit it, you're at CA because you upgrade stuff, right? That's part of the hobby.

I do think they will sell a shitload of these things, but I see it more as an upscale lifestyle thing, like Bose on steroids. Devialet probably does too since Harrods was given the exclusive rights to sell these for several months.

Sounds like HT speakers. Classy boom boxes?

Sounds like HT speakers. Classy boom boxes?

Precisely. As I said before, a sub woofer setup with small satellite speakers. They may well sell (look at Bose, Beats etc, although the price is a tad high for that segment) but they're not an audiophile product.

There are quite a few comments now from folks who have received their Phantoms at Devialet Chat - #phantomrising

Already a direct competitor out: electronics

Cant be a Phantom Killer, as a Phantom is already dead. LoL

Cant be a Phantom Killer, as a Phantom is already dead. LoL

Apparently you haven't heard about the sales figures :~)

Apparently you haven't heard about the sales figures :~)

neither have I. what are they?

neither have I. what are they?

Very good. Phantoms are flying off shelves, even at non-HiFi shops.

Very good. Phantoms are flying off shelves, even at non-HiFi shops.

So what are these sales figures? Are they even available in the US yet?

Cant be a Phantom Killer, as a Phantom is already dead. LoL

Apparently you haven't heard about the sales figures :~)

I think you missed the joke there Chris!

I think you missed the joke there Chris!

I'm still missing it :~)

I'm still missing it :~)

Cmon Chris, its easy…a Phantom is a ghost so cant be "killed". For the record, even premium dealers over here cant even get a demo unit for show.

Thank you Eloise! ;-)

Cmon Chris, its easy…a Phantom is a ghost so cant be "killed". For the record, even premium dealers over here cant even get a demo unit for show.

I get that there's a good joke in there, but I still don't get it :~)

Are you talking something to do with Phantom of the Opera?

I get that there's a good joke in there, but I still don't get it :~)

I didn't say there was a good joke... But just a joke.

I think Wison was suggesting the nothing could be a Phantom Killer (in the way every high end android phone is branded the iPhone Killer) because being a "Phantom" it's already dead...

I'll get some popcorn......

I get that there's a good joke in there, but I still don't get it :~)

 

Are you talking something to do with Phantom of the Opera?

this a little late chris- but i think he is referring to MR. WALKER- who the pygmies call 'GHOST WHO WALKS'- the original phantom

Hi, will one unit alone reproduce mono (...), or just "compact" stereo (i.e. both channel outputs close together)? Why the need for two? Reviews are unclear to me on this point.

I didn't say there was a good joke... But just a joke.

 

I think Wison was suggesting the nothing could be a Phantom Killer (in the way every high end android phone is branded the iPhone Killer) because being a "Phantom" it's already dead...

Bingo.